Always got to get the last clap in, haven't you? Yeah. Be interested with the podcast. Is this it? We've done. We started. Yeah. There's been a lot of there's been a lot of tech set up in the build up to getting our first podcast we recorded. And I have to be honest, I've had bugger all to do with it when I mate, this is your remit. 
I love a bit of gadgets and stuff. Yeah, definitely. 
So it's the first podcast, so we should probably just in case someone's, like, put the wrong thing into Google they wanted to watch. Like a TikTok of actual men burning. 

Yeah. Men on Fire is an interesting name, isn't it? In which case, you're in the wrong place. Hopefully. We're not on fire. We're near a fire.  But should we start with that? Yeah. Why do we call it Men on Fire? So we both like fire. 
Playing with fire. Yeah, we like playing with fire. We like being sat around a fire and we love talking and sharing stories while sat around a fire. I think that's fair to say. 
100%  your time around the fire is kind of like or.  Professional world as well, isn't it? 

Yeah. So I have my work time sat around the fire, and I have my private time as well, for me, and I'll just sit by the fire and have some private time for me. 
 
For those of you that don't know, Marcus is a barbecue pitmaster extraordinaire. He doesn't underselling it a bit when you say, I just sit round a fire. You sit round a fire and cook things, have a few ciders and put the world to rights. I think it makes sense, right, doesn't it? Because if you think about human evolution and history, the fire would be went back in the day when there was no electricity, no real fixed abode, like houses made of mud and trees and stuff. It would have been the focal point of everything, wouldn't it? Like your safety from predators or other people. Light when it's dark, warmth when it's cold. I think it's the soul of our ancestors. We're sat around a fire and it reaches deep into your soul, into your being. I think that's amazing. So who are you, then? Some bloke to sat around the fire with me, drinking my cider. 

Drinking? Yes. In a yeti cooler. We haven't got a sponsorship yet, but these things, they're really cut. Do yeti make barbecues. No. So they can't sort me out free barbecue? No. If you do ever go into barbecues yeti, I'll take one, but otherwise I don't really need a cooler. So who are you, Sam, then?  I'm Sam. I have a little bit of a heavy stroke of ADHD, so we might go on some tangents with questions like that. I run or operate as a sole trader through a company called Neurodive. I've spent most of my working life supporting Neurodivergent children and young people. I'm an ex rugby player, played to an all right level.  I love exercise. What is it? It feels like my lonely heart. But who are you? Who am I? 
Who are you? You said what job you are, but who are you? Are you a dad? A husband? I'm a man. A man. That is why I'm qualified to be part of this. Yeah, all of those things, mate. Recently a dad got a little three and a half year old I won't do.  One of the things that annoys me most in the world is when you ask someone how old their kid is, and they go, oh, he'll be six in January. I'm shit at maths mate. Work that out. Can you just tell me how old he is now? I won't do that. Yeah, I'm a dad. And I think going back to the men on Fire thing, the reason we're not just really into fire, we've both had, I guess, experiences with, or workings in or dealings with just like probably everybody that's listening has in mental health, good and bad. And I think. For both of us. We kind of connect over that fire being a point of support for those areas in both cooking, in both, just conversation around the fire. I brought up work because I do a lot of my sessions around the fire.  I think conversations with friends around a fire always better. That's kind of what I do with my free time as well. So, yeah, that's what we wanted to I think we had what it was, was a moment of clarity, really recently when we had a group of dads sat around the fire and the feedback we had was that there's nothing else for a lot of blokes. The time sat around the fire, everyone just opened up and it was pretty magical, wasn't it? And I think we both felt that was something special and that was something that would help other men. And that's why we got going, I think. Definitely. And we'd love female listeners, we're going to get, hopefully some female guests on. It's not that it's just not a boys only club, it's just more that we can only really speak from experience, men as men. So that's what we're going to be talking about because ultimately everybody's journey and story is different. And whilst we're going to try and touch on topics that affect everybody, that it'll be our own take on what those things mean for us, I guess. Absolutely. 

It's good to have a bit of a space for men and For men to discuss matters that are important to them as well, I think. And there are lots of places for women and the focus on women for different sexualities, for different things in people's lives but there's not much for men and men only or is that a hair care product? Men 
only, men only, just for men? Not just for men. We're men. So we're talking about being men is what the content? The content is being a man. But you might have a female take on being a man, who knows? And there will be fire, there will be probably some sport, there will be some ciders drunk, there will be putting the world to right and there will be some I think some deep stuff and some fun stuff and we certainly have a laugh and I think that's an important part of it. And there'll be a whole range of stuff we'll cover. We'll be getting special guests on as well. We've had a few people already asking can they be part of this? And it's very early day so we'll see what happens there. But yeah, one of them rhymes with Iraq Olama  I just pleased I thought with a rhyme. I mean in terms of mental health as well. I think one of the things that we were talking about that we wanted to kind of look at on the podcast is how  lot of the recent sort of encouragement around mental health awareness I think is brilliant. It's really valid and it needs to happen to sort of remove the stigma. But I do think that for men especially, but for lots of people it's not enough just to talk.  I know we have to talk, and that's great, and we need to do more of it. But I personally find that just talking over something that is really difficult, often it can just compound it unless you've got a really good listener, or it can just play over in your head. And I think unless you've got the cognitive tools to do something about it in your head, it. You're just going to keep ruminating. And sometimes it's about doing something, and that's where things like barbecue, fire, exercise, hobbies, they're so important. I don't think we give enough as a society, we don't give enough importance to just the things that you love to do. And that just being almost like a treatment. I don't if you find the saying, but we're both busy guys, we run businesses, families, friends, lots going on. It's hard to set aside that time for us, for me, for you, and I've really struggled with that. Having a bit of me time is pretty important, whether that be sat around a fire, cooking something, doing something non barbecue, doing something non fan, just going for a walk, just a bit fresh air, going by the sea, finding those things that really help you. I know I'm still searching for those things. I've got a good idea now. I'm nearly 50, I've got a good idea what to do, but sometimes I struggle with knowing what and where and how to do it. 
I think there's an interest in, like.  Sort of difference point there to a degree, because I have always been, luckily, selfish bastard, so I've always almost prioritized that. And I do think that whilst I have had ups and downs and dark times and made poor choices and medicated with things I shouldn't, I think that's always kept me in a good place. And I think I was going to ask you, actually, did that change quite drastically when you became a dad? Because what I'm finding now, 1s hopefully my wife won't listen to this. It's men's only in it, though. It's not. But when it was just me and her, I knew that was important. So I prioritize going down the gym, having a new hobby, medieval sword, fine, wherever the bloody hell it was. That six months.  Now I've got Arthur. Even though he doesn't do anything to elicit it, I get that little pang of like, should I just be spending time with him? Should I be doing something else? Should I be working, earning money for the family? Should I be cleaning the house? Should I be spending more time with my wife or Arthur? And actually, now I'm having more of a challenge with that than I ever had before. Whereas in the past, I used to like, that was my thing. If I'm into it and I have fun with it, I do it no matter what. 

It's definitely a thing when they're little, as they get older. So I've got the older kids and they're kind of off doing their own thing. They still need you, but they don't need you as much. So there is a bit where you're probably just coming into now where your kids do need you, and they need you in a different way. But as they grow older, you start having to let go of a few things and you find that your time becomes a bit different, where you have a bit more time for you. And I'm sort of coming out with three kids, coming out of that other edge where  I can now just have a bit more time. For me,  it would have been a real struggle to do a podcast a few years ago, but just having the time to do this for me is a brilliant thing now. And actually a bit of extra therapy for me as well. Probably doing this. And I think that talking about how you feel is really important, but also having time to do it. So I'm starting to do lots more things, both me and my wife, just for us to keep, because without us being strong, then we can't be strong for our family. As a man, if you're not in the right place, then you can't be strong for your family. 

That's something again, it's something I've noticed. And again, I wonder, with three kids, it must be even more compounded. I wonder if it's a common experience for other dads, but you're sort of used to. 

It's not being not being all of your wife's attention, obviously, but that's her, you know, you're her priority. And I think obviously, for the dad as well, like, when you've got a kid, it becomes the priority. But I just I think with, you know, again, hopefully she won't watch, but my wife is so good at being on to the kids, and then it's so noticeable when she's not being on with me. And you have to remind yourself that actually, she needs to not be on. She needs to be able to just be herself and be low. If she's low, whatever. But I think seeing that contrast for the first time is quite big, and I don't know if that's even more with three kids. Yeah, it's a big change. It's a big change. Having a family wonderful. It's amazing. It's got its ups and downs, but it is amazing as well. Most of the time, sometimes it's like a shit as well. 

Are we allowed to swear on ourpodcast? I think you can do what you want. 

Let's swear then. Yeah.  Now, you said that I won't be able to stop, probably,  because that is interesting, listening to you say about  then they grow up and they need you in different ways, but not the same. And then even then, I'm listening to that, thinking, actually, even that's going to be ours, because actually, I'm not looking forward to the time where he says, actually, dad, I'm going to play with my mates. 

I've been playing with you for three and a half years. I'm not even interested in monster trucks, so I think that's going to be a little flip as well. Oh, it's definitely a journey, being a parent, but being a man is a journey as well, isn't it? Yes. 

We don't isolate non dad. We would talk about being a man as well. And to be fair, I've been a man without a child longer than I have been with yeah. 2s So my eldest is 14 now, so yeah, I was longer a not dad longer a man than before I was a dad. 

Did you did you get into barbecuing? Was it like a hobby for mental health before it became a  business? 
It started off with me just hanging out in the garden and cooking for friends and family, and we moved to our  lovely garden we've got, and I remember cooking for lots of people and the. Think this I got quite good. I always like cooking, so I got quite good at barbecue quite quickly. And I remember feeling quite stressed, though, by the early days. Barbecuing for lots of people, everyone else having fun on a hot day. And for me, I was just out there cooking and sometimes nobody'd even bring me a drink or something, that's cold drink when I was cooking, and it was quite hard. So I had to find ways of making it easier on myself and that's I got into things like American barbecue. I built myself a wood fired oven to make pizzas and I just got into it. I'm one of those people that when I get into something, it takes over. 

But that's what I mean, though. Not necessarily that you did barbecue because you were consciously struggling, but more like  your ability to lock into something and just go with it. Is that something you've sort of done your whole life or? Very much so. Usually for quite long term or moderate term. I'm not somebody who skips between I am. Yeah, it was sailing. When I was at university, I was obsessed with sailing. I was out all the time. I've never sailed since I left university, really. Again, I've been out once or twice, but yeah, Barbecuing definitely filled that gap that I can feed people. I love to cook for people. For me, when I cook for you, I say, I care about you, I love you. That is, for me, the ultimate way of saying you care for somebody. And what I found with barbecue was that you could do that for lots of people, your whole family and friends, and that was pretty amazing. To be able to do that early on was fantastic. So, yeah, I love barbecue. I love outdoor cooking. Sometimes I hate it as well. It sort of takes over a little bit, but most of the time I love it, I think, as well with the barbecue, because I do the majority of cooking at home. I love cooking similar to you. I think it's a really good gesture, but also I just enjoy, I don't know, learning different flavors and trying different things and creating something, 1s but. And then, like, barbecue wise, when I came here and started working here in your venue, when we sort of got talking more,  it's being outside as well. And I think in modern life, there's quite limited options or just opportunities to be outdoors and have an excuse for being outdoors. And even saying that is ridiculous. Have an excuse for being outdoors. But unless the weather is nice, in which case everyone piles outside, it's easy to just stay in, isn't it? Or go somewhere that's got a roof. And I actually think it's so good for mental health, for soul, for just everything to have those opportunities to be outside. And 1s at the moment when we record this, it's bloody baking, isn't it? Lovely? Got the fire going. 

But I've been barbecuing regularly since probably, I don't know, February, March, and it's not been hot, but I've loved it because it's been like even just running out in the rain and readjusting it or just being out in the rain and not caring. And I think there's something to be said about that. And a lot of our, I guess, hobbies and activities are kind of based around that, aren't they? Get outside. 

I mean, for me, it's easy to barbecue on a nice summer's day, nice summer's evening. It's easy. The fire the fire inside out. You start throwing in wind, rain, snow, Yales, and it makes it more challenging, which for me is great, because then I become a better cook. I understand fire more, and I love that. 

Yeah. And I know I work with lots of people who are autistic, who find being outdoors really difficult. And I think it's hard sometimes because someone that's in a certain place where things are challenging, you can't just say, oh, it's easy, just exercise or just go outside or just take up a hobby. Everybody's journey is individual, but 1s it's difficult. It's hard to get them motivation to do those things when you are really low. But to me, it doesn't change the answer. Just like understanding. I know you don't have the motivation to do it, it doesn't change the answer. So how can we help you get that motivation? And again, that's why for me, I think mental health is partly awareness, but it's also action. There's like an action attached to it that you do to kind of focus. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful focus. Quite often I find on my classes, when we have the fire in the middle here, you just lose people to the fire. And I can stand there with a group of a dozen people, every single one of them has lost themselves to the fire. And that's beautiful. I kind of leave it for a little bit and then I go, hey everyone, very gently and just bring them back to the room. And they're all like, wow, they've lost themselves in the fire. And that is fantastic. I love that. Just chuck a load of French bangers in there, snap them out of jesus. Out of them. Well, that's why I started doing sessions for work around a fire, because I work with young people who are quite hard to they don't open up easily sometimes. And I just noticed that when we were sat around a fire doing sort of foresty stuff, just even just prodding it and just staring at it, like you say, you'd get much better conversation. I remember when we like, we had a wood burner put in the front room at home and I used to miss TV programs because I'm staring at the fire. Oh, shit. TV 

like nature's TV. Really? 

Yeah, it must have been Put the fire on. So, yeah. So that's what our podcast is going to be about, isn't it? 

It is, yeah. So hopefully you've enjoyed us rambling a little bit. Ramble? I think we'll put a bit of structure in. We'll have certain topics that we'll cover, but probably quite often we'll ramble a bit as well. Well, also, I think what's great, we don't want to be rambling about things you don't want to listen to. So if there are things you want us to talk about or cover or get guests on, or just send us ideas or questions, if you want to get involved at all, just send us a message. We've started some social media off, so me being me, I ran at that a million miles already. So social media is off? Yeah, social media set up already, so get in touch. Let us know what you think. And good or bad, how can we make it better for you? Yes. Cheers. And I'm shameless. So if you want me to wear some in, pretend I like something like this, yeti cooler. Lovely. Really cool. I have to sort you out with some dodgy Hawaiian shirts. I've got plenty of those. I just didn't want to steal your look. 
Take care. Thank you. Cheers. Next time.